Does the Velvet Underground actually count as noise rock?

Hey all,

I wanted to see all your opinions on this! I got in a huge debate with my friend yesterday. He says that without a doubt that the velvet underground is the first noise rock band. I hear the influence on the genre for sure, as they definitely influenced sonic youth and some other early no wave bands with the ostrich tunings and dissonance. However I don’t think they’re a true noise rock band! I think the genre really started in the 80s with flipper and swans and sonic youth after the no wave scene was collapsing. Noise rock to me needs an emphasis on punchy grooves, off kilter rhythms, and a stark influence from the hardcore scene. I just feel like the velvet underground are more so an artsy rock group of the 60s and 70s, but not a well defined sure fire noise rock band